G96, G97 and How To Calculate Surface Speeds

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Basic Turning

Basic Turning
G96 Hamsters Large wheel Small wheel
Call us for CNC Training and hamsters

Basic Turning, in the early days of CNC Turning G96 was one of the things that really made a massive difference.

It meant that instead of having to turn a part at a fixed speed and feed, the part could be programmed in G96 which was a constant surface speed.

Where diameters changed, particularly when facing, it made a massive improvement to tool life and surface finish as well as speeding up the whole process.

G97 Speed In RPM

In Basic Turning when you program G97 your machine will start the chuck up at a speed in RPM. So if you program.
G97 S1500 M3
Your chuck will start revolving clockwise at 1500 rpm.

G97 for Drilling Tapping and Screwcutting

When drilling  a hole you are on the centreline of the machine so you just want plain old simple RPM.

When tapping or spot drilling it’s the same.

Screw Threading (G76) can only be done in G97

G96

G96 however means meters per minute. This is a surface speed.
G96 S200 M3
Your machine would start up at a surface speed of 200 meters a minute. Now your RPM would depend on where on the diameter the tool was positioned.

Basic Turning

If the tool was positioned  at a 100mm diameter it would be as if the tool were able to run around this diameter at  a speed 200 meters a minute.
It’s a bit like being on a running machine if you ran at 200 meters a minute and placed various diameters under your feet the large ones would turn at slow rpm and the small ones would turn at high rpm. (Just like the hamsters above)

Basic Turning

 That’s why on a manual lathe it is hard to face a large diameter without changing speed half way.

Neeeeeoooooooowwww

You know when you face a part on a CNC Lathe and you hear that change in pitch? It’s the spindle increasing in RPM as it gets closer to the center of the part.

When it gets to the center your spindle is flat out so the G50 becomes crucial.

The G50 restricts the speed of the machine.

G50 S2000 machine will go no higher than 2000 rpm.

 

G96 G97 hamster on a Wheel

Did you have a pet hamster as a child?

I know it’s a random question but bear with me there is a point to this.

Well maybe you still have a Hamster and that’s not a problem. Time you fuckin grew up but it’s not for me to judge.

Anyway I did and his name was Harold Wilson (British Prime Minister at the time).

Well I bought my hamster loads of different wheels to play on just like the one above.

My hamster suffered with depression on account of being stuck in a cage all day and not having a girlfriend oh and he had a lot of credit card debts too.

These wheels varied in diameter from about 6 inches to a massive 2 foot one. They kept him happy all night. He was so tired he slept all day.

Harold could only run so fast but I noticed when he was on the small 6 inch wheel it absolutely whizzed around. Now on the big two foot diameter one it took him ages just to get it to spin around once.

Basic Turning
G96 G97 all about hamsters

Harold Had G96

A CNC machine in G96 will give a lovely finish because the surface speed always remains the same.

So even though Harold ran at 200 metres a minute (this is fuckin lightening speed for a hamster)

The wheels ran at different RPM depending on what diameter they were.

Harold Was a Clever Bastard

Oh by the way Harold had a tail (unlike other hamsters) and a maths qualification.

He knew that if he multiplied the diameter of the wheel by .00312 it would give him the circumference of whatever wheel he was running on in meters.

200 mm wheel (.00312 x 200 = .6864)

All he now needed to do was divide this answer into the speed he was running at and he would know how many RPM his wheel was revolving at.

If he was running at 200 meters a minute not only would he be fuckin knackered but the wheel would be running at 291 rpm

200 / .6864 = 291

Basic Turning Manual Machining

Using a manual machine you have to compromise. At the outside your speed is too fast and when you get to the centre you are too slow.

Manual Lathe


On a CNC lathe we would normally program in mm per revolution as well because the speed is changing all the time so we need our feed to be locked into the speed.
With a machining centre our cutter is always revolving at the same speed so the feed can be constant in mm per minute.

Someone out there will be thinking “what happens in G96 when you get to the centre of the part”. Well the spindle will be flat out!

Could be a problem. That’s where your G50 comes in to restrict the speed. Very important! CNC Basics G50

cnc turning basics
G50 Warning

Watch the video

See how surface speeds are translated to speeds in RPM. There are many converters online that you can use for this and I do recommend their use. It will also mean you don’t have to watch my tedious video.
When I train people at the CNC Training Centre my emphasis is on understanding not memorising. I usually start by saying “please don’t remember all the things I am telling you”.

 In the early days training students in Basic Turning I remember them saying to me the next day that they had G codes floating around in their head from the lessons the day before.

Basic Turning
G96 and G97


What I really mean is that the most important thing is to understand what the machine can do and the concepts of programming and Basic Turning.
You could say “I know there is a G code that makes the machine run in RPM” so all you need is a list of G codes.

If you can be bothered to work through the simple maths above. It will help you to fully understand how G96 is works.

Here is a list of Basic Turning G Codes.

The ones you use every day you will remember whether you want to or not.

G96 Whoopee It’s amazing

So use G96 for everything.

Except for:

  • Drilling.
  • Tapping
  • Threading (Screw cutting)
  • Cutting the Lawn

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New CNC Machines, Explore the Old One First

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New CNC Machines? Make Use of What You Already Have

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New CNC Machines

Before you buy any new CNC machines or computer systems checkout what you already have you might be surprised at what you can do. Breath life into the old beast.

Before buying New CNC Machines is there more you can do with the old one.
Mori Seiki Lathe

Investment

About 10 years ago my big gripe with companies when looking at increasing productivity and improving production methods, was that there was little investment in new technologies.

New CNC Machines represent a massive investment
Mazak Integrex Lathe

Now You Have New Machines

I think that now things are a bit different companies have invested in New CNC Machines and computer systems, although there is still room for improvement. Being the grumpy old ageing failed rock star that I am, my moan now is that the technologies that people have invested in are not being used to their maximum capabilities.

New CNC Machines


Bright Ideas

These are some of my suggestions and your MD will love the fact that they all cost little or no money:

  • Read the manuals on your CNC machine just the first few pages (not the boring health and safety shit, the next bit) bet you will learn something you didn’t know.

  • Now, about that probe in the carousel (covered in swarf, shit and coolant) that no one knows how to use. Learn to use it. Come on now there are loads of idiots like me posting free videos on this stuff. Once you use one I will guarantee your life will never be the same.

  • Check out the settings on your Haas machine (I can always get people excited about what these can do) look at the Haas tips n tricks page on their website. You will learn loads of stuff to impress your mates, not at the pub though please.

  • Make sure you are using the latest version of Edgecam (or your chosen CAM system). Edgecam and all software is evolving rapidly and you could be really missing out. If you have a software maintenance contract then you’re pouring money down the drain by not using the support.

  • Try to make a point of learning something new every day. (I am 86 and I still do) write them all in a book so you can look back and use your ideas.

That’s Not All

Check out the options on your machine. Maybe you have some really cool options you didn’t even know about. Might even be worth shelling out a few quid to buy some extras.

  • Rigid tapping.
  • Through spindle coolant.
  • Higher RPM.
  • Macro B.
  • Peck Tapping.
  • Extended work offsets.
  • Extra editing functions.

Watch These Videos

Copy a program on a Fanuc 18i

Copy and paste on Fanuc 18i

 

Oh and There’s More

If you really want to spend money I can help you with this I’ve already spent nearly all of mine. .

  1. Consider buying a touch probe, they save hours in setting time.
  2. Auto tool measurement probes can be used to set tools automatically. You will also be able to do in program checks for tool breakage etc.
  3. Add Macro B to your Haas or Fanuc control for loads of extra features.
  4. Add a speeder unit to increase maximum RPM.
  5. Consider adding a 4th axis to your vertical machining centre this will give loads of extra capacity and flexibility. Not cheap but well worth it.

But Most Of All Get Us To Train You

Please let me know how this goes, enter your comments below.

Contact me

Please contact me if you require:

  • CNC programming training.
  • Want to learn CNC programming.
  • Fanuc control training.
  • Yasnac programming training.
  • Any type of CNC course.
  • Fanuc training courses
  • CNC lathe training
  • Siemens Sinumerik
  • CNC Vertical Machining Centre training

Services offered at CNC Training Centre

Edgecam training.

Classroom programmer training.

Onsite CNC Machine Training.

CNC Training on all controls and machines.

Mazak Training Fanuc Training

Don’t forget we offer training on all types of Mazak Machines and all Fanuc Controls 6m to 31i Oi old to young.


Edgecam Version Update Now

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Edgecam Version

Make sure you are using the latest version of Edgecam. This software is rapidly evolving. You can spend a small fortune on tooling and CNC machines. Your CAD CAM system can make you fire on all cylinders.

Edgecam Version
Thanks to MTS Motorbike Tire Shop

 

 


Edgecam Training from the CNC Training Centre.

Edgecam maintenance contracts represent very good value for money and they entitle you to Edgecam support.

Edgecam support is the best.

Edgecam Version

Contact us if your interested in buying Edgecam

Other Edgecam Stuff

Edgecam Instruction Simulation

Edgecam Associativity How it Works

Layers in Edgecam

Roughing Edgecam (Centre Cutting Tool)

Edgecam Tutorial Assemblies and Filters

Please contact me if you require:

  • CNC programming training.
  • Want to learn CNC programming.
  • Fanuc control training.
  • Yasnac programming training.
  • Any type of CNC course.
  • Fanuc training courses
  • CNC lathe training
  • CNC Vertical Machining Centre training

Services offered at CNC Training Centre

Edgecam training.

Classroom programmer training.

Onsite CNC Machine Training.

Siemens Sinumerik Training

CNC Training on all controls and machines.

Mazak Training Fanuc Training

Don’t forget we offer training on all types of Mazak Machines and all Fanuc Controls 6m to 31i Oi old to young.

 


Modal and non modal G codes

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Modal and non modal G codes

Modal and non modal G codes

Let Me explain

We all know that programming can be complicated. So let me explain to you how it all works. This article explains the real meaning of Modal and non modal G codes.

Modal means that once a command is issued it stays in the control.

How Can you Actually Use This?

If you issue a G0 or G00 command the machine is in rapid and you do not need to re-state it.

Rapid means all motors are flat out, like a teenager in a Ferrari.

Every move from then on will be a rapid move unless you tell it otherwise. The G code that changes it must be in the same group. For example G0 G1 G2 and G3 are all in the same group a bit like The Beatles used to be.

The other day I was talking to  a “young person” who hadn’t even heard of the Beatles. I mean fuckin hell, am I really really old or are they doomed to be forgotten?

“Read More”

CNC Machine Training Classes

Category : Training

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CNC Machine Training Classes now running at the CNC Training Centre

Beginners

Setter Operator Beginners Turning

Setter Operator Beginners Milling

These two courses are designed for beginners who want to learn how to set and operate a CNC machine and are for students with very little engineering experience.

 Learn to Programme

Learn To Programme Turning

Learn To Programme Milling

If you already work on a CNC Machine but you want to learn to programme then the two courses above are for you.

Absolute Beginners

I have added these courses which are for students with very little engineering experience. They cover the basics of milling and turning in preparation for learning to programme.

Beginners turning

Beginners Milling

 

They are two day courses but pack a lot in, covering tooling and measuring instruments. I am drawing from my vast experience in industry, on the coal face as it were, and knowing the very basics skills that are needed by a CNC operator before he begins to learn about programming.

The New CNC Training Classes and Courses focus very much on the basics giving a solid understanding of the nuts and bolts of CNC programming on an ISO Fanuc Haas type control.

The Story

I am going to ramble on, because I always do, but it made me think of when I worked with my dad many years ago. My dad was a brilliant old school engineer and he worked for Alfred Herberts from boy to man, apart from a brief period in the RAF.

New CNC Training ClassesHe got made redundant and had his pension robbed when AH finally went bust. I was running an engineering company so it seemed obvious to have him working for me.

I learnt so much from my dad about the basic principles of machining (this is the link to the training courses) albeit tenuous. His claim to fame was that he worked the first Cri Dan machine. This was an amazing innovative machine that could hold it’s own, until fairly recently, against a CNC lathe for high-speed threading. There are still a few about now.

New CNC Training ClassesMy dad often joked that he could offhand grind a 1/16 of an inch drill and read a steel rule to a thousandth of an inch which I am sure was bullshit although I would never dare to say. I remember we were trying to turn and bore some motor bodies on a Mori Seiki lathe and we could not get them round. Anyway he told me to weld up some jaws so that they would fully envelop the part.

CNC Machine Training ClassesCNC Machine Training Classes

Basically it had nowhere to go it was like a big collet and it worked. But there was another lesson to learn. Our inexperienced inspector was trying to measure roundness with a micrometer which I am sure you all know cannot be done.

CNC Machine Training Classes

 

An argument ensued and profanities were exchanged. We ended up buying a Talyrond roundness checker which is the correct tool for the job.

New CNC Training Classes

 

As it happens the same thing cropped up in a customer’s only a few months back. I caught them trying to measure roundness with a micrometer. Back to basics again.

These days I have a much better way to prove my point than shouting and swearing and it’s cheap 50 pence to be precise.

 

I threw them a 50p piece (UK Currency) or even a 20p for the real cheapskates. “Is that round” was my question. They laughed

.

“Here is a micrometer now check it for roundness”.

Mmm it’s dead round when you check it with a micrometer.

The smart arses amongst you will know that a 50p piece is an “equilateral curve heptagon“. And it measures the same across any two points you care to choose. It proves that you can’t measure roundness with a micrometer.

I won’t be teaching you about roundness on these courses ,that would be silly you already know, but if you are interested in learning basic CNC Programming for a Lathe or Milling Machine look no further.

The New CNC Training Classes focus very much on the basics giving a solid understanding of the nuts and bolts of CNC programming on an ISO Fanuc Haas type control.

See all The Courses

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